pagan continuity hypothesis

And you're right. And shouldn't we all be asking that question? So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. But we do know that something was happening. And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't. An actual spiked wine. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. They're mixing potions. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. I mean, that's obviously the big question, and what that means for the future of medicine and religion and society at large. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! So let's start with one that is more contemporary. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. And what, if any, was the relationship between those ancient Greeks and the real religion of the earliest Christians, who might call the paleo-Christians. And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. We still have almost 700 with us. Not in every single case, obviously. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. This notion in John 15:1, the notion of the true vine, for example, only occurs in John. You want to field questions in both those categories? #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . So I want to propose that we stage this play in two acts. No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. Nage ?] I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example. Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. And I want to say to those who are still assembled here that I'm terribly sorry that we can't get to all your questions. I include that line for a reason. And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. You may have already noticed one such question-- not too hard. We look forward to hosting Chacruna's founder and executive director, Bia Labate, for a lecture on Monday, March 8. BRIAN MURARESKU: I wish I could answer that question. So I see-- you're moving back and forth between these two. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? "The Jews" are not after Ye. You become one with Christ by drinking that. The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. I wish that an ancient pharmacy had been preserved by Mount Vesuvius somewhere near Alexandria or even in upper Egypt or in Antioch or parts of Turkey. He's talking about kind of psychedelic wine. So listening right now, there's at least one orthodox priest, there's at least one Catholic priest, an Episcopalian, an Anglican, and several others with whom I've been talking in recent months. Now, that date is obviously very suggestive because that's precisely the time the Christians were establishing a beachhead in Rome. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. It was it was barley, water, and something else. John H Elliott - Empires Of The Atlantic World.pdf And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. Or maybe in palliative care. An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. So this is the tradition, I can say with a straight face, that saved my life. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. That's how we get to Catalonia. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. He draws on the theory of "pagan continuity," which holds that early Christianity adopted . So perhaps there's even more evidence. Now, let's get started, Brian. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. It draws attention to this material. Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis - ResearchGate Did the Early Church Use Psychedelics? - Substack You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. Brought to you by let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. This is all secret. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. How does, in other words, how does religion sit with science? And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? I understand more papers are about to be published on this. CHARLES STANG: Yeah. I don't think we have found it. The Immortality Key Book Summary by Brian C. Muraresku And for those of you who have found my line of questioning or just my general presence tedious, first of all, I fully appreciate that reaction. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I want to thank you for your time. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. That is about the future rather than the ancient history. That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. That's all just fancy wordplay. Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. So the Greek god of wine, intoxication. Is this only Marcus? I'm not. But it survives. So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. And I think there are so many sites and excavations and so many chalices that remain to be tested. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Which is a very weird thing today. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian And that is that there was a pervasive religion, ancient religion, that involved psychedelic sacraments, and that that pervasive religious culture filtered into the Greek mysteries and eventually into early Christianity. Whether there's a psychedelic tradition-- I mean, there are some suggestive paintings. But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. They did not. And please just call me Charlie. And I think that that's the real question here. Frankly, if you ask the world's leading archaeobotanists and archaeochemists, where's the spiked beer and where's the spiked wine, which I've been doing since about 2007, 2008, the resounding answer you'll get back from everybody is a resounding no. And that the proof of concept idea is that we need to-- we, meaning historians of the ancient world, need to bring all the kinds of resources to bear on this to get better evidence and an interpretive frame for making sense of it. And I hear-- I sense that narrative in your book. So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. CHARLES STANG: I do, too. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. So how exactly is this evidence of something relevant to Christianity in Rome or southern Italy more widely? Continuity Questions - 36 Questions About Continuity - QuestionDB And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. Israel's Exodus In Transdisciplinary Perspective: Text - Vdoc.pub But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. Not because it was brand new data. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. 8 "The winds, the sea . Was Moses high? Studies linking religion and drugs gain traction But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. Throughout his five books he talks about wine being mixed with all kinds of stuff, like frankincense and myrrh, relatively innocuous stuff, but also less innocuous things like henbane and mandrake, these solanaceous plants which he specifically says is fatal.

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