You're cursed for life.2. Your lead. Additionally, a Level 62 doesn't really have the tools to evaluate and sell a promotion to a 63. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. What does that look like in your mind? Google, Go to company page Embrace whatever people are saying are your flaws. I give you the example from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/awaits "A busy day awaits" as evidence.So one legitimate missing punctuation mark, one matter of verbal interpretation, one popular idiom, and one completely correct phrase. Next, advertise your new branching strategy in your peer groups. Most of our ways of doing things have so many imperfections that you would not have any trouble to find obvious thing to improve in obvious ways. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. Shock and awe awaits. I don't yet have any insight into what it might take to become a Partner, so I won't comment on that. Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. That sounded like a complete crock to me. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. At that time, I understood those questions as being just an excuse that the manager used because he or she didnt like something in my skills or personality. A great internal tool to help you sync your self perception with those around you is available internally at http://hrweb/US/CareerDev/folder/ms360process.htm. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page If I was looking at reducing costs this isn't exactly where I'd set my sights first but again this is Microsoft we're talking about. Software development at MS has become more complex and much more collaborative. Thanks M$Underpay. It's an excellent product. Levels are different outside the US. Don't obsess over what is in front of you. This is certainly the course that I took. But anyway, EOF for that angle. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. To the person worried about being same level for 3.5 years don't sweat it. Senior-level employees have the most decision-making power at a company and are meant to provide leadership and guidance to employees with less seniority. This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. Is it easier to level up in smaller groups (v1 product)? What an achievement! Thanks for keeping this focused. The skills are different, and part of the failure of this company is exactly due to losing star individual contributors that become mediocre leads, in all disciplines. A mistake was a huge cost. Finally, I think my experience proves that people who may be on theslow track to advancement can turn things around with the right commitment and management. Know Your Worth. take the time to find a mentor that is a great fit for you and the issue you're working on. At L63 you should be directing v-teams, serving as a lead or possibly even having direct reports. And I appreciate you screening out the non-productive whining posts. Its performance is compromised by your pandering to the RIAA and MPAA. Shock and awe awaits [sic].Four errors in grammar and punctuation in a post of just 14 words? A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. Otherwise, you start getting limited reviews and your compensation goes down.Obviously there was no advice in this post, but I thought it was an interesting observation, and perhaps the company can learn something from this viewpoint. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. You try that in subs (who actually generate the revenue, HQ typically dont) - but the question is - do they dare push such a thing in the US? * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. There are so many reasons why things didn't happen in a given review cycle. Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions. Once they successfully cross the chasm theyll start over on the typical S-shaped learning curve at the new level again. What is the average promotion velocity for non-technical fields? .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. I've seen some extremely senior developers propose solutions to problems, but be totally unconvincing. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.Take the challenge and go after tough problems. Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. So far, I haven't been successful. I've lucked out a bit by working on a key project for our group and division, although a lot of that was due to my own contributions. > What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. I am working towards it would say am there 75% of the way. Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. Your response is private Was this worth your time? I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. It can be a really discouraging time in your career, but if you can get past it youre headed for another amazing growth curve like the one that got you to level 62! Don't try to counter with stock levels argument as that is more convoluted, and given the current economic debacle's effect on our stock price..I understand that folks want to be Senior this, and Principal that but the truth is that it is mostly a fetish for some big sounding titles. * Stability at Microsoft is a two-edged sword. Same here. It's a $1,000-per-minute conversation - you should always have those. You've made 3 mistakes. The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. You can forge a great partnership and accomplish a lot. Wonderful. My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. They took credit for work done by others (#2 helps).Seriously, they only way to separate the wheat from the chaff in this company is to allow to interview without notifying the manager. It going to be more about survival in the current business climate. in my previous post i should have included a link to our internal mentor site for finding a mentor. Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. Great topic. That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. and is willing to take a chance on someone whose interview indicates they are ready for next level. I dont know why this is the case. Especially since the days of job title/level transparency.People should not forget that many times, higher levels do not equal higher pay. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. Stop thinking of your Mgr as your adversary and listen to what they are telling you. . I also agree with the requests to have a discussion related to 65+.Anyway, I have seen a very healthy discussion going on here, and most of the thoughts I wanted to share have been mentioned. (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. Mini: Great topic! My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. The way to succeed here is to find out how you make you, and your manager, and his/her leads, succeed as a team. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). Ultimately humans make decisions either by heart or brain. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. Mine is inside sales Azure. Thats what I call implicit :). It appears on 6.3% of resumes. Say B.In a perfect case, B will have 10 devs to transfer to A but when that happen B will be left with 5 testers and 2 PMs. I made sure I was the fastest, most efficient, and best bug fixer. I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k, Go to company page I think it's important to be very up-front andto use a clichetransparents with your manager regarding your next steps and prospects for promotion. The L64 guys should be able to influence their skip level orgs plus one or two groups outside of the skip org. .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. The details in front of you are just details. If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. I've been at Microsoft six years.I've never spent one second honestly thinking about my career or how to get a promotion or anything like that. You can bet that if I went back today I would be a _very_ different person.The only thing I would add is that at any level, you need to not only know that your manager believes you should be promoted and will fight for you, you need to believe that your manager _can make it happen_. By persist, I do not mean being happy to be at the same <63 level for 3+ years for exmaple. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stocks price tomorrow. Why does the company reward and keep these numbskull managers that hold people back? After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Contributed and exceeded in two roles - getting G-Star, then moved to another team with clear headroom and again, exceeded all commits and moved to L64. I started at 59 and just got promoted to 63 a couple months ago. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . Needless to say that not many will admit this fact. and hey if it backfires (eg the mgr flips), I can always take the offer at hand and leave MS.thoughts? Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions "We have a stable and relatively easy job, and as long as we achieve, we will not get fired." Take responsibility for defining the component in front of you -- is it really the right thing for the product/team? The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. FY08 review: "limited". When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. This 360 review is confidential and you dont have to share it with your mgr unless you chose to do so. I am not worried. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. Going from Level 62 to Level 63 is more about EQ than IQ. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. Some are exceptional at one, and passable at others. L63 is very much an important milestone, and in tough-hiring times like these the following question has never been more important: "Will <
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